Q&A: East Timor’s President Ramos-Horta on diplomacy, Gaza, and the West

Dili, East Timor – On the 50th day of Indonesia’s penetration of East Timor, longtime independency advocator and present the country’s President Jose Ramos-Horta reflected connected the past half-century of authorities and diplomacy successful his country.

Ramos-Horta was serving arsenic the overseas curate of the recently declared Democratic Republic of East Timor successful the days starring up to Indonesia’s penetration successful December 1975.

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Formed by the independency enactment Fretilin aft assemblage Portugal’s withdrawal from the country, the caller authorities successful East Timor’s superior Dili was nether unit from Indonesia and its menace of invasion.

As the information intensified, Ramos-Horta flew to the United Nations successful New York to plead for planetary designation and extortion for East Timor’s fragile independence. Despite unanimous enactment astatine the UN for Timorese self-determination, Indonesian troops launched their penetration connected December 7, 1975.

Ramos-Horta’s colleagues, including Prime Minister Nicolau Lobato and different Fretilin leaders, either went into hiding oregon were killed successful the ensuing attack. Unable to instrumentality home, Ramos-Horta became East Timor’s dependable successful exile for the adjacent 24 years.

During his exile, Ramos-Horta lobbied governments, quality rights organisations, and the UN to condemn Indonesia’s occupation, which resulted successful the deaths of an estimated 200,000 Timorese done conflict, famine, and repression.

Silenced by a military-imposed media blackout for overmuch of the 1980s, it was lone successful the 1990s that reports of Indonesian atrocities – including the 1991 Santa Cruz massacre – began to filter retired and East Timor’s conflict for independency gained planetary attention.

Ramos-Horta’s tireless advocacy earned him a Nobel Peace Prize, on with Bishop Carlos Belo, successful 1996.

A UN-sponsored referendum delivered an overwhelming ballot for independency successful 1999, starring to a afloat autarkic East Timor successful 2002. However, the state continues to look economical challenges and remains 1 of Southeast Asia’s poorest nations.

In the years overseeing his country’s modulation from struggle to reconciliation, Ramos-Horta has held the roles of overseas minister, premier curate and present president.

Al Jazeera’s Ali MC sat down with Ramos-Horta connected a caller travel to East Timor, wherever the president spoke astir his country’s agelong roadworthy to bid and hopes for it to prosper from membership of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), accrued commercialized with China, and improvement of the offshore Greater Sunrise state field.

Al Jazeera: Reflecting connected your relation arsenic an ambassador for East Timor aft Indonesia’s 1975 invasion, what were immoderate of the cardinal challenges that you faced portion advocating for your state connected the planetary stage?

Ramos-Horta: First, we were successful the midst of the Cold War with that catastrophic US engagement successful the wars against North Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

Then, you tin accidental – the US defeat, if not subject defeat, it was a full governmental decision astatine the hands of the Vietnamese. So, it was successful the midst of each of this that Indonesia invaded Timor-Leste [the authoritative Portuguese-language sanction for East Timor], connected December 7, 1975. The time before, US President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger were successful Jakarta, and they officially gave the greenish airy to President Soeharto to invade – immorally – with the usage of American weapons.

So, it was wrong this discourse that it was precise challenging for america to mobilise sympathy, enactment and the media. The penetration merited lone 1 small, abbreviated file successful The New York Times.

In Australia, determination was much coverage. But the sum didn’t past long, due to the fact that Indonesia did a precise bully job, with Australian complicity, successful blocking immoderate quality retired of East Timor. At that time, not a azygous writer came – the archetypal overseas writer to travel present was successful 1987.

The lack of [proof of] decease is the worst force of immoderate struggle. There were unspeakable massacres connected the time of the invasion, hundreds of radical changeable and dumped into the sea, including an Australian, Roger East [a writer killed by Indonesian forces connected the time of the invasion].

Many, galore countless radical changeable connected the spot. Many were live and dragged to the larboard of Dili, changeable and fell into the sea. Many much killed randomly astir town. And zero media coverage, not a azygous camera.

East Timorese President Jose Ramos-Horta addresses the 78th Session of the UN General Assembly successful New York City, US, successful 2023 [File: Brendan McDermid/Reuters]

AJ: How did that deficiency of media sum marque it hard for you, arsenic an ambassador overseas, to picture to the planetary assemblage precisely what was happening successful East Timor?

Ramos-Horta: Terribly difficult.

To mobilise radical who are perchance sympathetic, you tin bash truthful efficaciously if you person a backup for what you say, what you allege, what you report. This indispensable beryllium backed up with visuals.

But radical were sympathetic and listened to me. I was persuasive capable for them to judge what mightiness beryllium going on.

AJ: Given your ain idiosyncratic acquisition successful the conflict for independency successful East Timor, does that power the mode that you advocate? Does that bring a much idiosyncratic effect to your diplomacy?

Ramos-Horta: My idiosyncratic instinct arsenic a idiosyncratic is not shaped by anyone, by immoderate school, immoderate religion. It is me, always, against injustice and abuse.

Then came our acquisition and the combat for independence. When we fought for independency and for freedom, I went astir the satellite begging for support, begging for sympathy. Then, we became independent.

Well, however tin I not amusement sympathy successful a existent mode towards the Palestinians? Why would I not amusement sympathy successful a existent mode towards the radical of Myanmar? Just showing sympathy, due to the fact that we cannot bash overmuch more.

What tin we do? We are not adjacent a mid-sized country. But speaking retired – a dependable – is precise important.

AJ: What are your reflections connected what has occurred successful Gaza?

Ramos-Horta: It is 1 of the astir abominable humanitarian catastrophes successful modern times, successful the 21st century, adjacent to the sidesplitting fields successful Cambodia during Pol Pot’s regime.

The magnitude of bombs dropped connected Gaza is much than the combined magnitude of the bombs dropped connected London and Dresden during World War II, and much than the bombs dropped connected Cambodia by the Americans during the Vietnam War.

The suffering inflicted connected civilians, women and children is conscionable unbelievable.

How we, quality beings successful this 21st century, tin descend truthful debased and however Israel, a state that I ever admired, archetypal retired of sympathy for what Jewish radical went through, done their lives, done their past – ever persecuted, ever having to flee, and past culminating successful the horrendous Holocaust. When you past a Holocaust experience, similar the Jews, I would deliberation that you are a idiosyncratic that is the astir sympathetic to anyone yearning for freedom, for peace, for dignity. Because you understand.

They [Israelis] are doing the opposite.

And you person to understand, also, the radical who are connected the different side. You cognize the Palestinians, who had 70 years of concern and brutality, they are not going to amusement immoderate sympathy to the Jews oregon Israelis. So, this full concern has generated hatred and polarisation arsenic ne'er before.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, right, meets East Timor’s President Jose Ramos Horta successful the occupied West Bank metropolis of Ramallah successful 2011 [File: Mohamad Torokman/Reuters]

AJ: What tin the planetary assemblage larn from the acquisition of East Timor and radical specified arsenic yourself?

Ramos-Horta: I americium thoroughly disillusioned with the alleged planetary community, peculiarly the West, that bask entertaining themselves lecturing Third World countries connected democracy, quality rights, transparency, anticorruption, etc, etc.

They could ne'er find the lawsuit to assistance poorer countries getting retired of utmost poverty. But they recovered billions of dollars for the past 3 years to pump into the warfare successful Ukraine.

I don’t condemn that. It is achromatic radical supporting achromatic radical being attacked. But past they are soundless connected Israel arsenic it bulldozes the full of Palestine; carpet bombing, sidesplitting tens of thousands of civilians.

And yet, with incredible, nauseating hypocrisy, erstwhile they are asked to remark connected this, they accidental Israel has the close to support itself!

Defend itself against children, against women, against students, against academics, against universities, that they bulldoze completely. Defend themselves against doctors and nurses successful hospitals that they bulldoze.

And successful an unthinkable contortion, you person the secretary-general of NATO accidental Iran presents a menace to the full world. I cognize the full world, literally, and I don’t cognize of anyone successful the full satellite that I cognize that considers Iran a menace to them.

I consciousness nauseated with specified dishonesty, specified inhumanity. So, I’m thoroughly disappointed. And I was ever an admirer of the West.

AJ: Reflecting connected galore decades successful authorities successful East Timor, is determination thing that stands retired to you arsenic a idiosyncratic occurrence oregon thing that you consciousness astir arrogant about?

Ramos-Horta: I consciousness arrogant that we person been capable to support the state astatine peace. We person zero governmental violence. We person zero ethnic-based oregon religious-based tensions oregon violence. We don’t person adjacent organised crime. We person ne'er had a slope robbery oregon equipped robbery successful someone’s home. We don’t person that. And we are ranked among having the freest media successful the satellite and the freest ideology successful the world. I’m arrogant of my publication successful that.

A Pride Parade from East Timor’s capital, Dili, to the famed Cristo Rei statue of Christ, which was built by the Indonesians during the occupation. While East Timor has a ample Catholic population, LGBT rights person go much accepted, with adjacent President Ramos-Horta expressing enactment [Ali MC/Al Jazeera]

AJ: East Timor is acceptable to articulation the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN). What volition beryllium the benefits of being a portion of that?

Ramos-Horta: We’ll beryllium portion of a assemblage of 700 cardinal people, a assemblage whose combined GDP is astatine slightest $4 trillion.

And that means the anticipation of Timor-Leste benefitting from our neighbours is greater. There volition beryllium much escaped question of capital. There’ll beryllium much radical attracted to sojourn Timor-Leste and much embassies opening.

These are the benefits of being associated with an organisation similar ASEAN. There are concrete, worldly benefits too the value of the strategical alliance, the strategical partnership, with our neighbours.

AJ: China is truly emerging successful the Southeast Asia and Pacific regions. Are determination immoderate tensions implicit East Timor’s narration with China?

Ramos-Horta: We don’t presumption China arsenic an force of anyone, dissimilar immoderate successful America.

The US is not capable to digest the information that China contiguous is simply a planetary superpower, that China contiguous is simply a large planetary fiscal and economical power. That it is nary longer the US that rules this unipolar world, that it has a competitor.

But the Chinese are precise modest, and they accidental they are not competing to beryllium fig 1 with the US.

Any rational, intelligent idiosyncratic who is informed astir China – adjacent if a person emerged successful China that would presumption Australia and the US with hostility – would, successful his close mind, deliberation that you tin overpower the US economically and militarily.

AJ: What is the projected payment economically for East Timor from the Greater Sunrise Gas Field?

Ramos-Horta: The existing studies constituent to it taking 7 years for the full task to beryllium completed and present state and gross to Timor-Leste.

But agelong earlier that, the time we motion the agreement, wrong the pursuing fewer months, 2 years, a batch of investments already commencement to happen. Because we person to physique each the infrastructure connected the southbound seashore that volition tally into the tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars.

The pipeline volition instrumentality its clip to scope Timor, but the pipeline volition beryllium served by each the infrastructure built connected the southbound coast, positive housing. Hundreds, possibly thousands of houses for workers, for radical and truthful on. Then betterment successful the agriculture sector. Farmers successful the assemblage benefitting due to the fact that they volition merchantability nutrient to the company, to the workers and truthful on.

Despite much than 2 decades of independence, East Timor remains 1 of the poorest countries successful the portion [Ali MC/Al Jazeera]